Your are NOT Forgotten

You are NOT Forgotten
(An Interview with Ben Rogers by Feraya Nangmone and Taisamyone)

BURMA DIGEST: How did you first become involved with Christian Solidarity Worldwide?
Ben Rogers: I first became involved with the work of Christian Solidarity Worldwide in 1994, when I heard Baroness Caroline Cox, who is Patron of CSW, speaking in my university college chapel. She spoke about human rights violations in Sudan, Nagorno Karabakh, Burma and other places that she has travelled to, and I felt profoundly moved to respond. I spoke to her afterwards, asked to get involved, and then I launched an appeal on my university campus to raise funds and awareness. I travelled to Armenia and Nagorno Karabakh with Baroness Cox and US Congressman Frank Wolf a few months later, on a cargo plane loaded with humanitarian aid, and that was how it all began! In Nagorno Karabakh, a tiny war-torn enclave that had been bombarded and besieged by Azerbaijan, I met wonderful people who were bravely risking their lives struggling for freedom against all the odds. That was when my commitment to the fight for freedom first began.

BURMA DIGEST: What made you set up CSW in Hong Kong?
Ben Rogers: When I graduated I was offered a job as a journalist in Hong Kong. However, I was becoming more involved with CSW in my spare-time, and I wanted that to continue. I had a dilemma - if I moved to Hong Kong, would I have to give up my involvement with CSW. My dilemma was resolved when the National Director of CSW said: "The job you have been offered in Hong Kong sounds great. We think you should take it. And by the way, will you set up CSW Hong Kong while you are there". So that's what I did!


BURMA DIGEST: How did you first become interested in Burma?


Ben Rogers: I first really became interested in Burma through working in East Timor. I travelled to East Timor after the violence surrounding the referendum in 1999, with my friend Dr. Martin Panter, founder of CSW Australia, who has been visiting the Thai-Burmese border at least twice a year for the past 18 years. While in East Timor, which I have visited many times, Martin started to tell me more about the situation in Burma. I asked if I could travel with him to the Thai border, and so in March 2000 I made my first visit to the Karen and Karenni. I remember swimming across the Moie River to visit the Burma side, Karen State, briefly!!

BURMA DIGEST: We understand that you travelled to different parts of Burma. Please tell us a bit about your experience in different parts of different ethnic states.

Ben Rogers: I have visited the Thai-Burmese border and Internally Displaced People across the border inside Karen and Shan States, about 12 times, and the India-Burma border twice. I have visited Karen, Karenni, Shan, Chin, Kachin and Burman people. My passion is to work for all the people of Burma, not just one or two groups, and to fight for freedom and human rights for everyone in that country. I have met wonderful people of different ethnicities and religions, whose courage, faith, dignity, gentleness, graciousness and generosity is inspiring and humbling. I remember one Shan boy, aged 15, who told me how his mother and father were shot dead by the Burma Army, his village was burned, and he was taken as a forced porter and severely beaten. As he looked into my eyes, he said words which have stayed with me ever since: "Please tell the world to put pressure on the regime to stop killing its people. Tell the world not to forget us." I also remember a Chin person in Mizoram telling me: "We feel so forgotten. We used to pray that someone would come to us, and we used to weep when no one came. Your visit here is a Godsend." Such inspiring and humbling remarks make me determined to continue working for Burma's freedom until it comes.

BURMA DIGEST: Did you see evidence of abuses of human rights whilst you were there?

Ben Rogers: Yes. I visited one IDP village in 2002 just a few weeks after it had been attacked. It had been burned down. All that was left were the ashes. I remember sitting on a piece of wood that had once been part of a church, and talking to the pastor. "We have to leave village after village, house after house,” he said. "Please do not forget us. Please remember us in your prayers." I have interviewed refugees and IDPs with first-hand experiences of torture, rape and forced labour; I have met landmine victims, some of whom had been used as human minesweepers; and I have met former political prisoners and former child soldiers.

BURMA DIGEST: What do you think can be done to stop atrocities against human rights in Burma?

Ben Rogers: It needs a major concerted effort on the part of both the international community and the Burmese people. We need the UN Security Council to address the crisis and pass a resolution. We need China, India and Thailand to stop supporting the regime and to work for change. We need the EU to take a stronger, more proactive approach. We need countries like the UK to provide financial support to democracy building projects and groups on the border involved in human rights documentation, dissemination and education. We need ASEAN to increase its pressure. We also need greater unity among the people of Burma. In East Timor, although there were many different political and even regional/ethnic differences within the country, the people united and formed a common front against the Indonesian occupation, under the National Council for Timorese Resistance, known as "CNRT". They had three very clearly identifiable charismatic and well-respected leaders: Xanana Gusmao, the figure-head, in prison, who commanded the loyalty and respect of everyone, in the same way that Aung San Suu Kyi does in Burma; Bishop Belo, the head of the Church, the spiritual and pastoral leader; and Dr. Jose Ramos-Horta, in exile, who was able to communicate very effectively in the UN and other international forums and media and who travelled the world lobbying. In Burma, it is fragmented. Apart from Aung San Suu Kyi, whom the world knows and rightly admires, there is no clearly identifiable charismatic respected leader around whom everyone could unite. There are many many very very good people doing excellent work, but Burma needs one or two more people whom the world can identify. It would also be good if the people of Burma could unite under one single umbrella, as the East Timorese did with CNRT. At the moment, there are several umbrella groups - NCUB, NCGUB, ENC, NDF, DAB, NLD (LA) .... I find it confusing, and I work on Burma almost full-time and have done for six years. Imagine how confusing politicians and journalists find it. If we could build one umbrella group that everyone - NLD, KNU, RCSS, CNF, KNPP and all the other ethnic groups - joined, then that would single a great unity which would really help the cause.

BURMA DIGEST: Is there any possibility of taking the SPDC to the International Court of Justice? If so, which members?

Ben Rogers: Yes, I think it is possible. There is a very strong case against the SPDC for war crimes, crimes against humanity and genocide or attempted genocide. Several countries are considering the matter, and we are lobbying them to take it further. It would be wrong at this stage to speculate publicly as to which countries might do this, though. We need to continue lobbying and building up the case.

BURMA DIGEST: What are your views on Karen National Union?

Ben Rogers: The KNU has been courageously fighting to defend the Karen people and promote freedom in Burma, and I have great respect for them and their leaders. They have shown great restraint and dedication and moderation, in the face of extremely difficult challenges, politically and militarily. They have always made clear that they want a peaceful, non-violent, political solution to Burma's problems. Their armed resistance has bravely provided a front-line of defence for Karen civilians facing the attacks of the Burma Army. They have carefully avoided any tactics which could be deemed to be "terrorist", such as attacks on civilian targets, and have been primarily a defensive rather than an offensive force. The KNU is a key player in the future of Burma.

BURMA DIGEST: What are your views on US patriotic act and UK anti terrorist laws with regard to refugees from Burma?

Ben Rogers: I am aware that the Patriot Act has made it difficult for refugees who have any connections to the KNU or other armed groups in Burma. I think the Patriot Act needs to be reviewed. Of course the US and the UK need to be vigilant in protecting themselves against terrorist infiltration and I would be the first to support that. But the people from Burma are not terrorists, indeed quite the opposite - they are people who share our values of democracy and freedom, which terrorists do not - so we should be doing all we can to help them and give them sanctuary.

BURMA DIGEST: What can the World Community do to help the IDP’s and refugees from Burma?

Ben Rogers: It is vital that the international community, in the form of Governments and NGOs, provide funding to the brave relief groups who cross the border into Burma to take medical and food aid to the IDPs. So far, with a few exceptions, the world's governments and the major relief agencies have failed the IDPs badly. That must change, and it is something I am campaigning hard on.

BURMA DIGEST: The Conservative Human Rights Commission is breaking new grounds with the new compassionate policies of the new leadership of the Conservative Party. This is a significant change from the traditional view of the Conservative Party. What role do they have with the pro-democracy and human rights organisations for Burma?

Ben Rogers: The Conservative Party Human Rights Commission actually builds on traditional Conservative values of freedom, democracy, the rule of law, the dignity of the individual and opportunity, articulated throughout history by people like William Wilberforce, who ended the slave trade, Winston Churchill, who defeated fascism, and Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan, who helped defeat communism and promote freedom. However, it is very true that those values have not previously been applied consistently in Conservative foreign policy. In the past, we have built alliances with dictators who we should not have supported. The new Conservative Party Human Rights Commission will, I believe, have a very important role in helping to influence our foreign policy, place the promotion of human rights and democracy at its heart, and develop policies for more consistently championing human rights around the world. You can see our website www.conservativehumanrights.com for more information. On Burma, we have held a hearing in Parliament, the Shadow Foreign Secretary William Hague has been very supportive on a number of initiatives, including co-sponsoring an Early Day Motion and signing a letter to the UN Security Council, and he made a speech at an event with Charm Tong from the Shan Women's Action Network, which you can see on our website. The Conservative Party Human Rights Commission will continue to put pressure on the British Government and the international community to bring change to Burma, we will continue to develop alliances with the Burmese pro-democracy and human rights groups, and we will not stay silent. The most significant role we can play, at the moment as the Conservative Party is in Opposition, is to keep up the pressure on our own Government to do more.

BURMA DIGEST: Do you think the current changes in the Conservative Party will help them win the next election, and if they do, what will they do for Burma?

Ben Rogers: I believe David Cameron is making some extremely important and much-needed changes, to make the Conservative Party a truly modern, compassionate party which is genuinely committed to social justice. I was one of his earliest supporters for the leadership. I do believe we are now in a position - the best position we have been in in almost a decade - to win the next General Election. If that happens, I am confident that William Hague and David Cameron will be true to their word, and will really place human rights and democracy at the heart of foreign policy. As to what they will do for Burma, it depends on what the situation in Burma is at the time - but I do believe that they will strongly support the democracy movement and do all they can to restore democracy and human rights to the country.

BURMA DIGEST: How do you view the overall current situation In Burma?

Ben Rogers: The overall current situation is terrible. The offensive in Karen State is the worst in a decade. Thousands of innocent civilians have been displaced. The regime appears to be cracking down on the NLD. Although Than Shwe met UN Under Secretary-General Gambari recently, and Gambari was permitted to meet Aung San Suu Kyi, there is no visible sign yet that this was anything more than a trick to lull the international community into a false sense of security. I hope things will change and that the regime will recognise the need to enter into a meaningful tripartite dialogue, but at the moment the political, humanitarian and economic situation is desperate.

BURMA DIGEST: What is your vision for the future and for world peace?

Ben Rogers: I passionately believe that democracy is the key to peace. Truly democratic countries throughout history have never attacked another democratic country. Dictators and tyrants are the cause of war, poverty, instability and suffering. So my vision is for a world in which everyone may live in freedom - with the freedom to express their opinions without fear of imprisonment or torture, the freedom to choose their religion, the freedom to assemble, and the right to hold their government to account. Human rights are basic, simple, and universal. Every human being throughout the world has a right to be treated with dignity.

BURMA DIGEST: What is your last word for our readers and our ethnic brothers and sisters of Burma?

Ben Rogers: All I would say is that I make this promise: that the cause of freedom for Burma is one that I am committed to for as long as it takes. I have dedicated my life to it, and will go on doing so. I will not rest until all of Burma is free, all the ethnic peoples of Burma are treated with equal respect and equal rights, and the country can live in peace and without fear. I love Burma, I love the people of Burma, many of them have become my real and personal friends, and I will do everything I can to contribute to the struggle. To the Burmans, Karen, Karenni, Shan, Mon, Arakan, Chin, Kachin, Rohingya, Pa-O, Padaung and every other ethnic group: you are not forgotten.

Web links

A Land Without Evil: Stopping the Genocide of Burma's Karen People, a Book by Ben Rogers. http://www.benrogers.org.uk/ http://www.csw.org.uk/ http://ccfwebsite.com/world_display.php?ID=36&type=interview http://www.conservativehumanrights.com/newground/ http://www.partnersworld.org/rogers.html http://conservativehome.blogs.com/platform/ben_rogers/index.html